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	<title>Comments on: Lecture Review: Lev Manovich, &#8220;Cultural Analytics,&#8221; Paradiso, 17 May 2009</title>
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	<link>http://mastersofmedia.hum.uva.nl/2009/05/26/lev-manovich-cultural-analytics-lecture-at-paradiso/</link>
	<description>Research Blog Masters of New Media</description>
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		<title>By: &#187; lev manovich in paradiso buuv.nl</title>
		<link>http://mastersofmedia.hum.uva.nl/2009/05/26/lev-manovich-cultural-analytics-lecture-at-paradiso/comment-page-1/#comment-272133</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; lev manovich in paradiso buuv.nl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 09:39:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mastersofmedia.hum.uva.nl/?p=4097#comment-272133</guid>
		<description>[...] cultural analytics &#8211; lev manovich [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] cultural analytics &#8211; lev manovich [...]</p>
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		<title>By: PS</title>
		<link>http://mastersofmedia.hum.uva.nl/2009/05/26/lev-manovich-cultural-analytics-lecture-at-paradiso/comment-page-1/#comment-150653</link>
		<dc:creator>PS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:11:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mastersofmedia.hum.uva.nl/?p=4097#comment-150653</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s March 2010 and Singapore. I&#039;ve just had the pleasure/pain of witnessing Lev Manovich present. Nothing has changed, his examples are shallow, his attitude arrogant and his preparation non-existent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s March 2010 and Singapore. I&#8217;ve just had the pleasure/pain of witnessing Lev Manovich present. Nothing has changed, his examples are shallow, his attitude arrogant and his preparation non-existent.</p>
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		<title>By: Masters of Media &#187; Lev Manovich: Studying Culture With Search Algorithms</title>
		<link>http://mastersofmedia.hum.uva.nl/2009/05/26/lev-manovich-cultural-analytics-lecture-at-paradiso/comment-page-1/#comment-141096</link>
		<dc:creator>Masters of Media &#187; Lev Manovich: Studying Culture With Search Algorithms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:15:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mastersofmedia.hum.uva.nl/?p=4097#comment-141096</guid>
		<description>[...] May at the Paradiso to which his presentation on cultural analytics raised a great deal criticism [1] [2]. Shortly after his last talk professor and art historian Edward Shanken wrote the following on [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] May at the Paradiso to which his presentation on cultural analytics raised a great deal criticism [1] [2]. Shortly after his last talk professor and art historian Edward Shanken wrote the following on [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Paulus Veltman</title>
		<link>http://mastersofmedia.hum.uva.nl/2009/05/26/lev-manovich-cultural-analytics-lecture-at-paradiso/comment-page-1/#comment-131399</link>
		<dc:creator>Paulus Veltman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 19:10:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mastersofmedia.hum.uva.nl/?p=4097#comment-131399</guid>
		<description>@artexetra: thanks for the excellent review. I think this talk was both sloppy and shallow, so I fully agree with your remarks.

@Tjerk Timan: IMHO quality in art is neither entirely objective (measurable) nor entirely subjective (personal taste). Thus, I cannot see how &#039;objective computing&#039; could help us here. 

I was particularly shocked by the statement &#039;Culture has become digital&#039;. It is not just plain nonsense, it also invites another round of useless discussion about the definition of culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@artexetra: thanks for the excellent review. I think this talk was both sloppy and shallow, so I fully agree with your remarks.</p>
<p>@Tjerk Timan: IMHO quality in art is neither entirely objective (measurable) nor entirely subjective (personal taste). Thus, I cannot see how &#8216;objective computing&#8217; could help us here. </p>
<p>I was particularly shocked by the statement &#8216;Culture has become digital&#8217;. It is not just plain nonsense, it also invites another round of useless discussion about the definition of culture.</p>
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		<title>By: Maria Perevalova</title>
		<link>http://mastersofmedia.hum.uva.nl/2009/05/26/lev-manovich-cultural-analytics-lecture-at-paradiso/comment-page-1/#comment-131292</link>
		<dc:creator>Maria Perevalova</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 17:24:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mastersofmedia.hum.uva.nl/?p=4097#comment-131292</guid>
		<description>I would like to add some comments in defense of Lev Manovich though the lecture and the lecturer left mixed feelings and thoughts. His cultural analytics project is more of an exploration nature than a research one. The research questions are therefore vague and not formulated properly that make the project look so &quot;unacademic&quot;. However, I would agree with the previous comment that quantitive research CAN &quot;provide a whole set of insights&quot;.(leaving out here all the narrative about exponentially growing content and a need in developing digital methods of analysis).
Overall, i didn&#039;t like the tone of the article; the critical comments on Manovich and his project are justifiable in some cases but in some - just unsound.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to add some comments in defense of Lev Manovich though the lecture and the lecturer left mixed feelings and thoughts. His cultural analytics project is more of an exploration nature than a research one. The research questions are therefore vague and not formulated properly that make the project look so &#8220;unacademic&#8221;. However, I would agree with the previous comment that quantitive research CAN &#8220;provide a whole set of insights&#8221;.(leaving out here all the narrative about exponentially growing content and a need in developing digital methods of analysis).<br />
Overall, i didn&#8217;t like the tone of the article; the critical comments on Manovich and his project are justifiable in some cases but in some &#8211; just unsound.</p>
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		<title>By: Tjerk TIman</title>
		<link>http://mastersofmedia.hum.uva.nl/2009/05/26/lev-manovich-cultural-analytics-lecture-at-paradiso/comment-page-1/#comment-131249</link>
		<dc:creator>Tjerk TIman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 20:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mastersofmedia.hum.uva.nl/?p=4097#comment-131249</guid>
		<description>Although you post some interesting critique, I cannot agree with everything you say:
 
&quot;The questions Manovich posed to his data were mundane and limited to formal features.  Even then the methodology and results were unconvincing. As a member of the audience astutely pointed out during the Q&amp;A, Manovich&#039;s cultural analytics does not reckon at all with content.  Perhaps that, more than anything, is its most egregious shortcoming.&quot;

The point here is (to my humble opinion), that the analysis Manovinch makes, is NOT about content! The question he posed was just an example (ok, not the best one) of a method to research a cultural artifact via objective computing rather than &#039;just&#039; a subjective opinion of &#039;just&#039; one art critic. And here lies the key of his argument, I think; while we used get away with looking at an artist and forming our own opinion, there are new types of cultural artifacts (often natively digital) that do not let themselves be researched and evaluated that easy, due to their quantity and networkedness. Its just too much, too fast. These new cultural artifacts call for new methods of evaluation. Not saying that you should analyse ALL culture in this way, the new type of (digital) artifact often finds its quality in quantity; in that sense, the numbers and graphs Manovich presented ARE the new content (however vague that may sound). 

By the way, I did too not understand what was &#039;dangerous&#039; about his arguments. To whom? Art critics? For some reason, the comment about content by the audience struck me as being very nostalgic, old and &#039;against computing&#039;. While this (the position of art critics) is entirely not at stake here. 

Either way put, quantitative research about cultural (digital) artifacts can provide a whole set of insights that one individual, how brilliant he/she might be, cannot. ((call for debate))</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although you post some interesting critique, I cannot agree with everything you say:</p>
<p>&#8220;The questions Manovich posed to his data were mundane and limited to formal features.  Even then the methodology and results were unconvincing. As a member of the audience astutely pointed out during the Q&amp;A, Manovich&#8217;s cultural analytics does not reckon at all with content.  Perhaps that, more than anything, is its most egregious shortcoming.&#8221;</p>
<p>The point here is (to my humble opinion), that the analysis Manovinch makes, is NOT about content! The question he posed was just an example (ok, not the best one) of a method to research a cultural artifact via objective computing rather than &#8216;just&#8217; a subjective opinion of &#8216;just&#8217; one art critic. And here lies the key of his argument, I think; while we used get away with looking at an artist and forming our own opinion, there are new types of cultural artifacts (often natively digital) that do not let themselves be researched and evaluated that easy, due to their quantity and networkedness. Its just too much, too fast. These new cultural artifacts call for new methods of evaluation. Not saying that you should analyse ALL culture in this way, the new type of (digital) artifact often finds its quality in quantity; in that sense, the numbers and graphs Manovich presented ARE the new content (however vague that may sound). </p>
<p>By the way, I did too not understand what was &#8216;dangerous&#8217; about his arguments. To whom? Art critics? For some reason, the comment about content by the audience struck me as being very nostalgic, old and &#8216;against computing&#8217;. While this (the position of art critics) is entirely not at stake here. </p>
<p>Either way put, quantitative research about cultural (digital) artifacts can provide a whole set of insights that one individual, how brilliant he/she might be, cannot. ((call for debate))</p>
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		<title>By: Kai</title>
		<link>http://mastersofmedia.hum.uva.nl/2009/05/26/lev-manovich-cultural-analytics-lecture-at-paradiso/comment-page-1/#comment-131208</link>
		<dc:creator>Kai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 08:47:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mastersofmedia.hum.uva.nl/?p=4097#comment-131208</guid>
		<description>I like this! It refreshes my mind!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like this! It refreshes my mind!!</p>
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		<title>By: Maarten Marx</title>
		<link>http://mastersofmedia.hum.uva.nl/2009/05/26/lev-manovich-cultural-analytics-lecture-at-paradiso/comment-page-1/#comment-131204</link>
		<dc:creator>Maarten Marx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 06:52:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mastersofmedia.hum.uva.nl/?p=4097#comment-131204</guid>
		<description>I absolutely agree with this review.
This performance was a shame for Amsterdam and  Paradiso. I&#039;m happy I walked away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I absolutely agree with this review.<br />
This performance was a shame for Amsterdam and  Paradiso. I&#8217;m happy I walked away.</p>
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		<title>By: Marijn de Vries Hoogerwerff</title>
		<link>http://mastersofmedia.hum.uva.nl/2009/05/26/lev-manovich-cultural-analytics-lecture-at-paradiso/comment-page-1/#comment-131167</link>
		<dc:creator>Marijn de Vries Hoogerwerff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 16:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mastersofmedia.hum.uva.nl/?p=4097#comment-131167</guid>
		<description>I considered Manovich&#039; presentation as a work-in-progress and have treated it as such. If he would have shown something groundbreaking/shaking it might have been worth the effort writing about it. For now, he just took a personal example and explored his method, or rather, his techniques, to show how massive datasets of cultural artifacts might be analyzed in the near future. I however also think that the huge dataset or &quot;downloading the web&quot; approach is problematic. I believe its works better to begin by asking relevant questions based on strong hypotheses. From this point gathering specific data to show patterns to assist the hypotheses would not need any huge database of all the worlds online “secret” stories. This is of course a matter of methodology and interesting to address in a piece of its own.

I have the feeling the importance of blogging about it is situated somewhere else. That Manovich has chosen these works of art as examples has, I believe, nothing to do with his end goal but seems to be functional in stirring up some commotion by denying (human) hermeneutic content analysis. I have yet to find out what was meant with &quot;dangerous&quot;, and this post does not bring me closer to an answer. It does however sound similar as other critiques against anyone who dares to analyze art in this manner, as a code, a pattern. It seems it is a given that no new insight can come from looking at data in a different way. I believe that projects such as Gapminder have shown that by a simple shift of focus and some basic visualization techniques, one can get a completely different view of data that has been around for ages, but has been misinterpreted for decades. Maybe its a natural reaction of a species in danger of being extinct... or maybe I should not be tempted into this just because I feel annoyed when I&#039;m indirectly addressed as ass-lickin&#039;, no-time-for-critique having, courage-less student.

I would like to end my stating that I too am not too charmed by his presenting style, but a style it is, as this is the way he always presents (at least that is my experience and from those around me), and thus I did not expect something else. It was however to bad that he skipped over the parts addressing those main critiques from the audience (and in this post).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I considered Manovich&#8217; presentation as a work-in-progress and have treated it as such. If he would have shown something groundbreaking/shaking it might have been worth the effort writing about it. For now, he just took a personal example and explored his method, or rather, his techniques, to show how massive datasets of cultural artifacts might be analyzed in the near future. I however also think that the huge dataset or &#8220;downloading the web&#8221; approach is problematic. I believe its works better to begin by asking relevant questions based on strong hypotheses. From this point gathering specific data to show patterns to assist the hypotheses would not need any huge database of all the worlds online “secret” stories. This is of course a matter of methodology and interesting to address in a piece of its own.</p>
<p>I have the feeling the importance of blogging about it is situated somewhere else. That Manovich has chosen these works of art as examples has, I believe, nothing to do with his end goal but seems to be functional in stirring up some commotion by denying (human) hermeneutic content analysis. I have yet to find out what was meant with &#8220;dangerous&#8221;, and this post does not bring me closer to an answer. It does however sound similar as other critiques against anyone who dares to analyze art in this manner, as a code, a pattern. It seems it is a given that no new insight can come from looking at data in a different way. I believe that projects such as Gapminder have shown that by a simple shift of focus and some basic visualization techniques, one can get a completely different view of data that has been around for ages, but has been misinterpreted for decades. Maybe its a natural reaction of a species in danger of being extinct&#8230; or maybe I should not be tempted into this just because I feel annoyed when I&#8217;m indirectly addressed as ass-lickin&#8217;, no-time-for-critique having, courage-less student.</p>
<p>I would like to end my stating that I too am not too charmed by his presenting style, but a style it is, as this is the way he always presents (at least that is my experience and from those around me), and thus I did not expect something else. It was however to bad that he skipped over the parts addressing those main critiques from the audience (and in this post).</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Castiglione</title>
		<link>http://mastersofmedia.hum.uva.nl/2009/05/26/lev-manovich-cultural-analytics-lecture-at-paradiso/comment-page-1/#comment-131157</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Castiglione</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 12:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mastersofmedia.hum.uva.nl/?p=4097#comment-131157</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think anyone at the event really bought his argument 100% (even those in the said &quot;circle&quot;). Although I think he mentioned a school somewhere in South America (Brazil?) that he was going to begin working with his methods? 

But yes, it seemed reminiscent and as mistaken as when Chris Anderson declared the &quot;end of the scientific method&quot; due to new pattern recognition algorithms. 

Also...it was fairly shocking that he was deleting/editing his white-background, black text powerpoint during the presentation. But not as shocking as some of the articles he has published that are rife with typos.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think anyone at the event really bought his argument 100% (even those in the said &#8220;circle&#8221;). Although I think he mentioned a school somewhere in South America (Brazil?) that he was going to begin working with his methods? </p>
<p>But yes, it seemed reminiscent and as mistaken as when Chris Anderson declared the &#8220;end of the scientific method&#8221; due to new pattern recognition algorithms. </p>
<p>Also&#8230;it was fairly shocking that he was deleting/editing his white-background, black text powerpoint during the presentation. But not as shocking as some of the articles he has published that are rife with typos.</p>
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